The Wartburg Project

November 30th, 2025

132. Does Isaiah 63:16 teach that the saints in heaven do not know what is happening on earth?

Let’s begin by looking at the passage and its accompanying note in the EHV.

But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us,
though Israel does not acknowledge us.
You, the Lord, are our Father.
Our Redeemer from everlasting is your name.

Note: We have no reason to believe that the saints in heaven know about specific events on the earth. We are not to seek help from the saints in heaven, but from the LORD, who has the desire and power to hear and to help.

Many commentators say that this passage states that the saints in heaven do not watch over what is happening on earth. Others understand the statement as simply hypothetical: Even if Abraham would be ignorant of us and Israel would not acknowledge us, God will always be our Father and our Redeemer. Though this would seem to be a very minor issue, it has some significance since this verse is often used as part of the evidence to make the case against praying to the saints. If the saints are not aware of specific events on earth, how can they hear or answer our prayers? Does the Hebrew text offer us any help in determining which view of the verse is most likely? But before we can answer that question, it is necessary to do a detailed study of a Hebrew word,

To translate and understand our text, we have to examine a Hebrew word that looks very simple at first glance, but translating it turns out to be very complex. It is the little Hebrew word כִּי ki. כִּי ki has so many possible nuances that it is called “the multi-faceted כִּי.”  Virtually all of its many meanings can be understood as nuances of the basic meaning “that” or “indeed.” Here is a list of some of its meanings or nuances.

  1. כִּי may introduce noun clauses that serve as a subject or an object of a verb or as an apposition. “He said that he would come.”

  2. It may introduce direct speech. In such cases it is omitted from the English translation and translated by quotation marks. He said {that} “I am coming.”

  3. One of the most basic meanings is causal, because or since. “[Because of the fact] that you have done this, you are cursed.”

  4. כִּי may introduce a result. “What have I done to you that you did this to me?”

  5. After a negative, כִּי may have an adversative connotation, but. “You shall not harm me, but (i.e., for the reason that) you shall do me good,” or “you shall not harm me, but (i.e., indeed) you shall do me good.”

  6. It may be emphatic, surely, indeed. Closely related to this is the use in introducing oaths, “By God, that you are guilty.” This may be thought of as: “Surely, you are guilty” or “[I swear] that you are guilty. This seems to be the most basic nuance.

  7. כִּי may be concessive, although. “[Though it happens] that you run away, I will catch you.”

  8. It may temporal, when or then. Here it often occurs in the phrase, “it came to pass that he came and said” which equals “when he came, he said.”

  9. כִּי may be conditional, “if.”  This is probably understood as an abbreviated sentence in the form “[If it happens] that you come, I will go with you.”  In this use כִּי usually occurs in real conditions.

The Hebrew speaker may not have thought of these multi-faceted uses of כִּי as different meanings, but as various uses of the basic meaning that or indeed, the specific nuance of which had to be derived from the context. In English we must spell out the nuance more explicitly by using specific conjunctions. Gesenius’ Lexicon gives a striking example of the varieties of כִּי in Joshua 17:18. All the italicized words represent occurrences of כִּי in Hebrew.

You shall not have only one lot, but the mountain country shall be yours. Although/since it is wooded, you shall cut it down, and its farthest extent shall be yours; for you shall drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots and because they are strong.

Different translations detect different nuances for some of these occurrences. For another view of כִּי, substitute the word “indeed” for all the italicized words in the preceding passage. כִּי may always impart a shade of emphasis.

You shall not have only one lot. Indeed the mountain country shall be yours. Indeed it is wooded. You shall cut it down, and its farthest extent shall be yours. Indeed you shall drive out the Canaanites. Indeed they have iron chariots, and indeed  they are strong.

So let’s apply what we have learned about כִּי to our passage. On the basis of what we have learned, the starting point of our translation of the two kis in our text would be:

Indeed you are our Father;

indeed Abraham does not know us, Israel does not acknowledge us.

The same Hebrew word introduces each half of the verse. This does not mean they must have the identical meaning, as the example from Joshua indicates.

It does not seem very likely that the second ki is merely hypothetical. In its conditional use, ki usually occurs in real conditions, as it does in the example from Joshua. “Though they have iron chariots” describes a real condition. The though in the EHV rendering does not imply a hypothetical meaning. It is understood to mean, “But you are our Father although Abraham does not know us, although Israel does not acknowledge us.” When understood in this way, the verse can properly be cited as a part of the evidence against prayers to the saints. A more important reason not to pray to the saints is that we have direct access to the Father in prayer through the one Mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ. The Isaiah passage would add a second point: prayer to the saints is not only unnecessary. It is not possible.

So we have learned a number of things in this rather long answer: